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 CaribbeanChoice : General Discussion : Society & Social Issues
Message Icon Topic: Haiti: We Care ... A Brief History Post Reply Post New Topic
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Quote sandra Replybullet Posted: 18 Jan 2010 at 11:36am
I was on another forum where someone called Pat Roberson an Ahole. I got to see what this is all about.
I asked for all things so that I might enjoy life; I was given life so that I might enjoy all things
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Quote sandra Replybullet Posted: 18 Jan 2010 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Citizen Eve

If sending money ... Partners in Health is a great place to start ... they have been working in Haiti long before this disaster ... <span> </span><h1 ="ecxstoryline">If Haiti is to `build back better'</h1><h3 ="ecxbyline">By PAUL FARMER</h3>

It just came to me. Haiti will build back bigger and better. It's God's plan. He's showing us that that impoverished island needs help. Now they'll get the help they should've been getting a long time ago. You go, God

     <div ="ecx" id="ecxstoryContent">



Paul Farmer is the Presley Professor of Social Medicine at the Harvard
Medical School, the co-founder of Partners In Health, and the deputy to
Bill Clinton, United Nations Special Envoy for Haiti.

A few months ago, I joined President Clinton as a volunteer to, in his
words, help Haiti ``build back better'' after a series of storms in
2008 destroyed an estimated 15 percent of already beleaguered Haiti's
GDP. We had just been meeting about these efforts and a series of
upcoming forums to be held in Port-au-Prince, and I was then going to
join colleagues from Partners In Health in central Haiti, where I have
had the good fortune to work with remarkable Haitian medical colleagues
for many years. The day before our New York meeting, Port-au-Prince was
flattened by an earthquake. There is not a lot left to be said, but
having just returned from Port-au-Prince, there are some points worth

If Haiti is to ``build back better,'' as
President Clinton has been saying, there are lessons to be learned from
our efforts, not always honorable or effective, to help Haiti over the
past two centuries. This can change and must do so, if we are to be
real partners in responding to this latest misfortune.


The scale of the disaster is coming into view. All of the clichés born
of extremity came to mind as I saw the city of Port-au-Prince in the
dark after this huge earthquake. Symbols of authority and some sort of
civility were flattened or tottering. The National Palace looked like a
meringue pie that had been sat on. A foul smell hung over the General
Hospital, which had just run out of diesel fuel and was surrounded by
the injured, the sick, and, of course, piles of those who did not make
it. But contrary to rumors of looting and mayhem, the city of two
million was quiet, which in itself was unusual. I had never experienced
Port-au-Prince without the blaring of radios and car horns. And I
expect it will remain this way -- calm, as long as people are offered
dignity and respect and the necessities of daily survival: food, water,
sanitation and shelter.

The public open spaces of the city (there are few of these) and many
streets have been closed off by the citizenry seeking protection from
both aftershocks and troublemakers (there have been more of the former
than of the latter). What strikes me from Port-au-Prince, apart from
the enormity of the disaster, has been the magnitude of the response
among those unaffected, whether within Haiti or without -- the simple
desire to help -- and the difficulty we will face in seeking to match
that goodness with the surpassingly enormous need. So far the desire to
help has not been matched to the need, and there are several things to
keep in mind as the situation on the ground changes rapidly.

First, rescue and relief efforts are far from over. Although for some
they are too late, for others they are just beginning. The head of the
United Nations here, who stepped in to replace a fallen comrade, just
told me that by digging through rubble they have found someone alive
under the ruins of their headquarters. Throughout the city and in the
debris of a number of public buildings, people can be heard calling for
help. Some are texting on phones that they are alive. It must be no
different in other devastated cities, such as Jacmel in the south.

Rescuing survivors will take heavy equipment and experts. These are
being brought in now from around the world. But this enormous
outpouring of concern and support will be hard to receive. The airport
in Port-au-Prince is clogged with aircraft. Some are turned away. All
day yesterday, I was with a group of surgeons and anesthesiologists who
had brought their skills and supplies. They had to wait many hours
before being cleared to land, not because the control tower was
destroyed (it was), but because there simply were so many aircraft
requesting clearance. A plane full of requested personnel and supplies
circling overhead while people die is the right metaphor for the
challenges facing us in the short term. Making sure this concern is
translated into meaningful rescue and relief efforts is a significant
challenge, and here are some basic points that experts in disaster
relief make all the time.

Second, in-kind donations are not
really what is needed now. I attended a meeting at the U.N. in which
this was underlined to assembled ambassadors and donors. Send money,
not in-kind donations. To my surprise, the only exception noted that
day was Meals Ready to Eat, as there is no way to cook safely in
Port-au-Prince at present.

To this I would add that some people
do have in-kind services to offer. Trauma specialists are a good
example, but in addition to the obvious supplies, surgeons need blood
banks, water, and space in which to work. Fuel is needed for
generators. All of these are in short supply. So even when a response
is highly specific and of obvious utility, like the call for trauma
specialists, anesthesiologists, orthopedists, and hospital supplies,
coordination is king. But coordination also requires resources --
telecommunications equipment, vehicles, fuel, and cash, to say nothing
of feeding and housing of staff. And so coordination can exist in
principle and be visible on the ground, yet still be a key goal.

In other words, we cannot give up on improving coordination by
dismissing important actors as unable to perform their function. The
Haitian people, victims of yet another series of blows, are already
helping one another, and many have built up informal networks to help
their neighbors in need of food, water, or first aid. The Haitian
attitude expressed in the saying, ``If there's enough for two, there's
enough for three'' has no doubt saved many lives over the past 72
hours. Coordinating with the people of Haiti means getting messages out
on the radio and cellphone, when these services have been restored, to
direct people to places where basic needs can be met.

the Haitian government has been dealt a severe blow and not just to its
buildings. If at a quarter to five in the afternoon an earthquake takes
down not only the National Palace but also the Ministry of the
Interior, the State Department, the Tax Bureau, and the Ministries of
Finance, Planning, Public Works and Public Health, as well as the
parliament building, you can well imagine the gaps created in an
already weak public sector. The situation at the United Nations mission
is similar. Although the U.N. headquarters collapsed and most of its
leadership remains unaccounted-for, the U.N. is rebuilding. Central to
this effort is the U.N. arm responsible for bringing together
humanitarian groups including nongovernmental organizations to ensure a
coherent response to emergencies. The World Food Program, too, has
expertise in responding to such disasters; it is already present in

Fourth, aid should be coordinated and conceived in a
way that shores up Haitian capacity to respond. The planeload of
surgeons mentioned above were responding to a call from the Haitian
National University hospital. It should be noted that the leadership of
that hospital (also surgeons) and the director of nursing have been at
their posts for days. They are showing up to work even without the
coordination and cash and supplies they need. Identifying such
priceless local partners is important for many reasons related to
relief and rescue, but it is most important for reasons related to

Some of this emergency response can be done with
longer-range views in mind. Schools must be rebuilt, but in the
interim, children must be back in school soon, and rebuilding the
city's housing stock will require a different kind of urban planning
and a long-term commitment to respect for the Haitian people's wishes.

Finally, I was reminded last night that rescuers will get tired. I went
to see my hardy colleagues -- Haitian, Americans from Boston and Miami,
Irish, and Cuban. A couple of them had been in Port-au-Prince before
the quake -- attending, ironically, a meeting on disaster preparedness
-- and had spent every waking moment attempting to assuage suffering
the scale of which most of us have never seen. Here again, coordination
and cash are king. Just like everyone else, they will need food and a
safe place to sleep. Two of my medical colleagues have been sleeping in
a jeep. Another two have spent the past two nights without any sleep at
all. One of my Haitian colleagues had a dressing on her hand but did
not comment on it. She was looking for water and food for the rescuers
and, of course, worrying about her own family, some of whom were still
unaccounted for.

Like so many of my Haitian colleagues, she
represents what is best about that country: an inextinguishable spirit
of resistance that represents hope even in the darkest of times.

is initiated by those who oppress, who exploit, who fail to recognize
others as persons - not by those who are oppressed, exploited, and
unrecognized. It is not the unloved who initiate disaffection, but
those who cannot love because they love only themselves," Paulo Freire.

Edited by sandra - 18 Jan 2010 at 11:43am
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Quote Citizen Eve Replybullet Posted: 18 Jan 2010 at 11:52am
Think we should leave God out of this one ... he's tired ... you think ...
Sandy some of these so call aid agencies and the church have been in Haiti for decades and haven't made a dent in things ... or that dent is so minuscule one can't see it ... Haiti deserves more ... @#$% the charities ... no more ban aid solutions ... lets see real work ... and start forgiving all that crazy debts .... the noose to hang the Haitian people.

Edited by Citizen Eve - 19 Jan 2010 at 3:08am
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Quote sandra Replybullet Posted: 18 Jan 2010 at 1:00pm
CE, God's hand is in everything. I feel for him because people are questioning him right now. And I'll stop at that.
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Quote Citizen Eve Replybullet Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 3:07am
Some more history ...

“Hating Haiti” by Minister Faust
March 04, 2004 Vue Weekly

See also Latest Archived Democracy Now! Coverage

Defying Washington: Haiti's Aristide Returns to the Caribbean

And from Monday, March 8th, 2004:
EXCLUSIVE: Aristide Speaks To Democracy Now! In Most Extensive English-Language Interview Since His Removal From Haiti

“If you’re elected as president of a country,
don’t depend on the US to respect the rule of law.”
—Charles Rangel, a US Congressman

“The deed is done. Haiti has been raped.
The act was sanctioned by the United States, Canada and France.”
—The Jamaica Observer

The second oldest republic and poorest state in the Western Hemisphere, victim of thirty-two coups, object of US occupation for nearly two decades, home to dynamic culture, syncretic religion and volatile politics, the sick man of the Caribbean.


Until recently governed by Jean-Bertrand Aristide, its economy is clutched by a pale-skinned, half-French ruling class, an arrogant, vicious elite for whom racial self-hatred is almost a religion; they’re the single percent of the population who owns nearly half of Haiti’s wealth and bears substantial responsibility for Haiti’s 51% literacy rate, 50% undernourishment, 50% access to clean water and sanitation, and 49.1 year life-expectancy.

Players and prospects are changing by the hour, but one thing that isn’t changing is that Haiti is messed up. So who’s gonna tell us why?

Here’s a helpful rule: don’t trust liars. The US State Department and The New York Times each claimed that democratically-elected President Aristide had asked for asylum in South Africa and been refused, which is why Aristide is, at the time of this writing, in the Central African Republic. But South Africa’s UN ambassador Dumisani Kumalo flatly denies that Aristide asked for South African sanctuary. The US says Aristide “resigned,” while two US Congresspeople, the head of a major NGO and Aristide himself say he was “kidnapped;” if so, asking for asylum without a telephone under enemy guard might be difficult. The US, Canada and France called for Aristide to resign two years before the end of his term, claimed he’d failed his country politically and economically. But according to, since 2000, “the Bush administration has erected an economic aid blockade, preventing more than $US 500 million in international loans and aid [including] a $146-million loan package from the Inter-American Development Bank... intended for health care, education, transportation and potable water.” The US says it’s devoted to democracy in Haiti, yet according to Noam Chomsky, under OAS sanctions imposed after the first anti-Aristide coup, exports from Haiti to the US actually increased.


How about US support for the 2002 coup against democratically elected Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez? Or the illegal US invasion of Panama in 1989, a bloodbath which tested how quickly then-new US stealth fighters could butcher 3,000 people to capture a former CIA drug-relay and anti-Sandinista asset? (The invasion violated the OAS treaty, by the way, which calls for member states to defend each other in event of aggression. This treaty violation—no small crime—should have forced the instant resignation of George I.) Or the ten-year US-bankrolled terrorist war to overthrow the democratically elected Nicaraguan government? Or the CIA-backed coup in the first 9-11 (1973, in Chile) to overthrow democratically elected President Salvador Allende, followed by the “neutralisation” of 3,000 people?

But terrorising populations inside the US Empire isn’t a SNAFU—it’s SOP. Aristide attorney Ira Kurzban said that if it’s true, the abduction of the president would be “the worst kind of 19th century gunboat diplomacy.... If this is President Bush’s order, the Congress needs to investigate and determine if it’s an impeachable offense.”

US Congresswoman Maxine Waters names a specific enemy of democracy: Undersecretary of State for Latin America, Roger Noriega. She calls the senior aide to former Senator Jesse “Hang ‘em Again” Helms a “Haiti hater,” saying both were longtime backers of Haitian dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier and sworn opponents of Aristide. According to Waters, the gangs who’ve just overthrown Aristide are full of Duvalier loyalists. The key gunman is former US Special Forces and an alleged drug lord. Jamaican Prime Minister P.J. Patterson questions just how “voluntary” Aristide’s alleged “resignation” was; according to our CBC, he was flown out of Haiti on a “Pentagon plane.” According to Waters, Aristide was told by US diplomats that unless he left immediately, the rebels would kill many Haitians, including him.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell, recently described by TransAfrica Forum founder Randall Robinson as a traitor to African Americans, said on February 13, “We will accept no outcome that in any way illegally removes the elected president of Haiti,” and that no matter how “corrupt” or “incompetent” Aristide is, he must not be forced from office before 2006 end of his term. Ah, well. Some slaves wear golden chains, while still others become slave-hunters, two-legged hounds who track down and rip apart those who escape their shackles. Powell oversaw the slaughter of 3,000 Panamanians (many of whom were Blackfolks) and the immolation of perhaps as many as 100,000 conscripted Iraqi men and boys fleeing Kuwait on the “death highway” during GW I. Colin, you’re a man we can trust... to lie. And certainly, to buckdance and smi-i-ile while coloured people anywhere in the world are exploited or executed en masse in the service of US-corporate domination: witness Iraq right now.

If this coup is the proxy-overthrow many are claiming it is, why did the US hate Aristide enough to destroy him? Certainly it’s not because of his alleged corruption or repressive rule—the US has armed and supported repressive regimes for at least a century, from Zaire to the Philippines to Iraq (bringing Hussein’s Ba’athists to power in a bloody 1963 coup). The US never imposed a sanction against so much as Haitian mangoes during the Duvalier horror. Repression is always good for business, from breaking a local strike to air-striking a faraway state.

Jean-Bertrand Aristide was originally a liberation-theologian and priest who remembered Christ’s warning to the rich on how tough it is to get into heaven, whose Lavalas (the Flood) movement received 67% of the vote in Haiti’s first-ever democratic election, drowning the US-stooge and former World Bank shark Marc Bazin. Noam Chomsky says that Aristide reduced “corruption extensively, and trim[med] a highly bloated state bureaucracy,” winning “a lot of international praise for this, even from... international lending institutions,” who offered him “loans and preferential terms because they liked what he was doing.” Aristide cut back Haitian drug trafficking and nearly stopped the flow of refugees to the US, and “atrocities were reduced to way below what they had been or would become. There was a considerable degree of popular engagement in what was going on.”

So like Chomsky says, “the only question in the mind of anybody who knows a little history should have been, How is the US going to get rid of Aristide?”

According to Chomsky, both Bush I and Clinton backed the first overthrow of Aristide. The US broke the OAS embargo intended to oppose the coup leaders’ “horrible atrocities and torture,” says Chomsky, who adds, “I was there at the time and I don’t think I’ve ever seen such terror.... The Bush and Clinton administrations... even secretly authorized illegal dispatches of oil (in violation of presidential directives) to the military junta and its wealthy supporters.” Eventually Washington allowed Aristide to return, but on mafioso terms: if you make concrete change, you’ll wear concrete galoshes. Aristide was forced to implement the policies of Marc Bazin (loser at 14% in the 1990 vote) and in Chomsky’s terms, “US demands for an extremely harsh neo-liberal regime which has pretty well devastated what’s left of the country.” In 2003, Chomsky said that the US opposes Aristide’s government partially just out of “revenge against an independent populist leader. Certainly not corruption. I’m sure it’s corrupt, and brutal, and everything else they say, but not more than other countries that the US supports. If we start running down the list of countries the US supports, Haiti looks pretty good by comparison.”

Did Aristide undermine the democratic election of 2000? Of eight disputed deputies, those elected fraudulently stepped down. Nation of Islam newspaper The Final Call quotes Dr. Alex Dupuy, professor of Sociology at Wesleyan University, as saying, “the parliamentary elections provided an opportunity for the U.S. to undermine Aristide by supporting the opposition. [But] Aristide’s major blunder was to use extra-judicial means [of] armed gangs to do his bidding for him.” Some of Aristide’s “gangs” have stoned marchers and even erected fiery blockades during recent protests against him. Aristide has been accused of employing murderous thugs who’ve repeatedly bloodied Haiti’s shattered streets in recent weeks. Reporters Without Borders placed President Aristide on its list of “predators of press freedom.”

So what about his opponents? Someone once said, “If fire-fighters fight fire, what do freedom-fighters fight?” Factory-lord and US citizen Andre Apaid has emerged as civilian leader of anti-Aristide Group 184, despite his citizenship being a violation of the US Neutrality Act. Congresswoman Waters said only days ago that protests organised by Apaid have become increasingly violent: “Police officers are confronted, property is damaged, and roads are blocked. [I believe] Apaid is attempting to instigate a bloodbath... and then blame the government for the resulting disaster [so] that the United States will aid the so-called protestors.”

And Guy Phillipe, US Special Forces trainee who once fought to restore Aristide, has been linked to “Baby Doc” Duvalier, and was accused in 2000 and 2001 of plotting against Aristide. According to The Final Call, “While in the Dominican Republic, Mr. Philippe’s reputed taste for luxury hotels fuelled speculation he was involved in drug trafficking.... ‘You can look in all the banks of the world, but you will not find any money of mine, because I am not rich,’ he said.”

Maybe not. But the US, France and Canada certainly are, and they all backed the destruction of Aristide’s government. Once again, SOP. Ken Wiwa wrote in The Globe and Mail, “Back in the heady days of 1804, the US punctured Haitian euphoria [of new liberation] when it led a worldwide boycott of Haiti for... 60 years.... [T]he French also forced the Haitian people to [pay] 90 million gold francs (equivalent to $21.7 billion today) as ‘reparations’ to their former ‘owners’ in return for diplomatic recognition and trade.”

Starve a country. Enslave it. Work it to death. Bleed it dry. Kidnap or kill its leaders. Bomb it. It’s the oath of empire.

We need an oath for democracy. And to live it.

Edited by Citizen Eve - 19 Jan 2010 at 3:09am
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Quote Citizen Eve Replybullet Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 1:12pm
More info on Haiti ...

HAITI: The Hate and the Quake

BY SIR HILARY BECKLES, Published on: 1/17/2010.

THE UNIVERSITY OF THE WEST INDIES is in the process of conceiving how best to deliver a major conference on the theme Rethinking And Rebuilding Haiti.

I am very keen to provide an input into this exercise because for too long there has been a popular perception that somehow the Haitian nation-building project, launched on January 1, 1804, has failed on account of mismanagement, ineptitude, corruption.

Buried beneath the rubble of imperial propaganda, out of both Western Europe and the United States, is the evidence which shows that Haiti's independence was defeated by an aggressive North-Atlantic alliance that could not imagine their world inhabited by a free regime of Africans as representatives of the newly emerging democracy.

The evidence is striking, especially in the context of France.

The Haitians fought for their freedom and won, as did the Americans fifty years earlier. The Americans declared their independence and crafted an extraordinary constitution that set out a clear message about the value of humanity and the right to freedom, justice, and liberty.

In the midst of this brilliant discourse, they chose to retain slavery as the basis of the new nation state. The founding fathers therefore could not see beyond race, as the free state was built on a slavery foundation.

The water was poisoned in the well; the Americans went back to the battlefield a century later to resolve the fact that slavery and freedom could not comfortably co-exist in the same place.

The French, also, declared freedom, fraternity and equality as the new philosophies of their national transformation and gave the modern world a tremendous progressive boost by so doing.

They abolished slavery, but Napoleon Bonaparte could not imagine the republic without slavery and targeted the Haitians for a new, more intense regime of slavery. The British agreed, as did the Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese.

All were linked in communion over the 500 000 Blacks in Haiti, the most populous and prosperous Caribbean colony.

As the jewel of the Caribbean, they all wanted to get their hands on it. With a massive slave base, the English, French and Dutch salivated over owning it - and the people.

The people won a ten-year war, the bloodiest in modern history, and declared their independence. Every other country in the Americas was based on slavery.

Haiti was freedom, and proceeded to place in its 1805 Independence Constitution that any person of African descent who arrived on its shores would be declared free, and a citizen of the republic.

For the first time since slavery had commenced, Blacks were the subjects of mass freedom and citizenship in a nation.

The French refused to recognise Haiti's independence and declared it an illegal pariah state. The Americans, whom the Haitians looked to in solidarity as their mentor in independence, refused to recognise them, and offered solidarity instead to the French. The British, who were negotiating with the French to obtain the ownership title to Haiti, also moved in solidarity, as did every other nation-state the in Western world.

Haiti was isolated at birth - ostracised and denied access to world trade, finance, and institutional development. It was the most vicious example of national strangulation recorded in modern history.

The Cubans, at least, have had Russia, China, and Vietnam. The Haitians were alone from inception. The crumbling began.

Then came 1825; the moment of full truth. The republic is celebrating its 21st anniversary. There is national euphoria in the streets of Port-au-Prince.

The economy is bankrupt; the political leadership isolated. The cabinet took the decision that the state of affairs could not continue.

The country had to find a way to be inserted back into the world economy. The French government was invited to a summit.

Officials arrived and told the Haitian government that they were willing to recognise the country as a sovereign nation but it would have to pay compensation and reparation in exchange. The Haitians, with backs to the wall, agreed to pay the French.

The French government sent a team of accountants and actuaries into Haiti in order to place a value on all lands, all physical assets, the 500 000 citizens were who formerly enslaved, animals, and all other commercial properties and services.

The sums amounted to 150 million gold francs. Haiti was told to pay this reparation to France in return for national recognition.

The Haitian government agreed; payments began immediately. Members of the Cabinet were also valued because they had been enslaved people before independence.

Thus began the systematic destruction of the Republic of Haiti. The French government bled the nation and rendered it a failed state. It was a merciless exploitation that was designed and guaranteed to collapse the Haitian economy and society.

Haiti was forced to pay this sum until 1922 when the last instalment was made. During the long 19th century, the payment to France amounted to up to 70 per cent of the country's foreign exchange earnings.

Jamaica today pays up to 70 per cent in order to service its international and domestic debt. Haiti was crushed by this debt payment. It descended into financial and social chaos.

The republic did not stand a chance. France was enriched and it took pleasure from the fact that having been defeated by Haitians on the battlefield, it had won on the field of finance. In the years when the coffee crops failed, or the sugar yield was down, the Haitian government borrowed on the French money market at double the going interest rate in order to repay the French government.

When the Americans invaded the country in the early 20th century, one of the reasons offered was to assist the French in collecting its reparations.

The collapse of the Haitian nation resides at the feet of France and America, especially. These two nations betrayed, failed, and destroyed the dream that was Haiti; crushed to dust in an effort to destroy the flower of freedom and the seed of justice.

Haiti did not fail. It was destroyed by two of the most powerful nations on earth, both of which continue to have a primary interest in its current condition.

The sudden quake has come in the aftermath of summers of hate. In many ways the quake has been less destructive than the hate.

Human life was snuffed out by the quake, while the hate has been a long and inhumane suffocation - a crime against humanity.

During the 2001 UN Conference on Race in Durban, South Africa, strong representation was made to the French government to repay the 150 million francs.

The value of this amount was estimated by financial actuaries as US$21 billion. This sum of capital could rebuild Haiti and place it in a position to re-engage the modern world. It was illegally extracted from the Haitian people and should be repaid.

It is stolen wealth. In so doing, France could discharge its moral obligation to the Haitian people.

For a nation that prides itself in the celebration of modern diplomacy, France, in order to exist with the moral authority of this diplomacy in this post-modern world, should do the just and legal thing.

Such an act at the outset of this century would open the door for a sophisticated interface of past and present, and set the Haitian nation free at last.

Sir Hilary Beckles is pro-vice-chancellor and Principal of the Cave Hill Campus, University of the West Indies.

Edited by Citizen Eve - 19 Jan 2010 at 1:13pm
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Quote Citizen Eve Replybullet Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 1:15pm
As a christian Sandy ... what do you think of Pat Robertson's response to the Haiti situation ... share your thoughts ... I know you are an intellegent woman ... 
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Quote vutjebal Replybullet Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 2:39pm
Do it for me too.... sandy!!!Reading
It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.
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Quote Citizen Eve Replybullet Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 3:17pm
Don't rush it V ... take your time ... its worth it ... Wink
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Quote sandra Replybullet Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 3:35pm
I haven't heard or read what he said. I'll get back to you as soon as I do so.
I asked for all things so that I might enjoy life; I was given life so that I might enjoy all things
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